Podcast with Tamir Shklaz Part 4
Discover the transformative power of coding and computationalthinking in the rapidly evolving world of AI and robotics. Join Tamir Shklaz
and Andrew Liew as they delve into the crucial role of coding for building
complex systems, problem-solving, and fostering a love of learning. Uncover the
secrets to standing out in the tech industry as a fresh graduate, and learn how
to equip children with essential skills for the future through exciting coding
education. Don't miss this enlightening podcast episode that will inspire you
to embrace coding as a gateway to limitless opportunities.
In this podcast episode, Tamir Shklaz and Andrew Liew discussthe significance of coding and computational thinking in the context of AI and
robotics. They agree that while simple applications may be easily constructed
with large language models, more complex systems, such as a banking or aircraft
system, require in-depth thinking and breaking down problems into smaller
components. Tamir emphasizes that coding teaches individuals how to think and
solve problems, making it a valuable skill for navigating the ever-changing
For fresh graduates interested in the tech industry, Tamiradvises building portfolios that demonstrate problem-solving abilities and a
passion for creating solutions. He suggests seeking joy and curiosity in the
field to adapt to challenges and make a meaningful career. Additionally, he
recommends instilling a love of learning in children, helping them approach
education with enthusiasm and self-motivation.
To support his mission of promoting coding education, Tamirinvites parents to check out StriveMath.com for their children between the ages
of 8 and 16, offering a free trial class using the code "Andrew2023."
He also encourages partnerships with schools and businesses to introduce coding
workshops and employee benefit programs.
[00:00:00] Andrew Liew: It suddenly got me thinkingabout, yeah, I'm aligned with you in a sense that, yeah, for simple
application, perhaps communicating with chat GPT or a large language model,
they're able to construct it in a very simplified, possible way and manner, but
when the system gets very large, let's say, asking them to build a banking
system or asking them to build a the aircraft systems where it flights, that's
a very complicated structure.
[00:00:24] Andrew Liew: Yeah. And that requires a lot offirst principle and breaking down of thinking, which is, you can get chat GPT
or large language, but you have to break it down. And by breaking it down, it's
actually a form of constructions of thinking and that construction of thinking,
coding, or I can call it computational thinking, like how to communicate to the
large language model or robots or AI.
[00:00:48] Andrew Liew: To think like communicatingbecause they think in terms of computation, right? human beings the way we
human beings is think is brought it depends on what school of thought that we
have thought if you have thought in being like [00:01:00]being a social person and we will communicate the social human base You are
taught to interact with computer.
[00:01:05] Andrew Liew: We need to learn how to talk tocomputer So like reading is just basically a way of understanding languages
from different people from of different kinds but whereas coding could be adopting
a computational thinking of how do I enable the robot or AI to really
understand me better to construct all this, like you say, constructionism,
building more complex structure because AI and robot is just like a knife or a
[00:01:32] Andrew Liew: If you just stamp it in you can'treally do it But if you know how to slice and chive with the knife, you have to
construct something different now the other interesting fact is why do we think
that my view is why Having learning coding helps because when you start to
build very complex structure and when you start to build a car You know,
ethical grounds, ethics, moral.
[00:01:52] Andrew Liew: How do you get to train a car tosay do you drive and you suddenly see a donkey or see a human being? Where do
you serve? Do [00:02:00] you put the brakes andendanger yourself or do you swerve to the right and just hit the donkey but you
don't kill the human beings? Where is the ethical ground, the ethical reasoning
to programming into large, such a large complex system so that the AI or the
robot serve the human.
[00:02:15] Andrew Liew: And because that one, you can'ttell the robot to say you decide for me, they're probably going to decide
what's the fastest, efficient way to go from point A to point B and just kill
the guys at the front, right?
[00:02:27] Tamir Shklaz: To build on that quickly, justto say I think one of the key things that coding does is just teaches you how
[00:02:32] Tamir Shklaz: It, it forces you to lay outyour thinking step by step and create algorithms and computational models of
just how the world works, which just improves your ability to solve problems as
[00:02:44] Andrew Liew: Yes, it definitely helps to solveproblems as a human. It really teaches people how to learn. And so coming back
to the next question, as in there's a lot of fresh graduate they're coming out
and this year we are experiencing a recession even up to next [00:03:00] year and so they are have a heightenedsense of anxieties and worry.
[00:03:05] Andrew Liew: And if they want to go and take ajob in the tech industry. What is your tips or what is your view and advice for
[00:03:12] Tamir Shklaz: Yeah, I think
[00:03:14] Tamir Shklaz: So, much to dive into. The, Ithink one low hanging fruit that I think more students should be doing is
building portfolios. The CVs that we end up getting from fresh college guys or
even experienced workers end up being. They just lack some sort of
entrepreneurial spirit. They lack a illustration that I have self identified a
[00:03:39] Tamir Shklaz: I self identified a solution andI created something on my own to do this. That just that. It's such a factor
for me when I'm looking at a CV to be like, should I speak to this person or
not? And I find it to be a pretty rare thing while it's being a very low
hanging fruit because like you've got so many problems around you, [00:04:00] especially if you're technical, that likeyou also then have so many means to solve those and it's so much fun.
[00:04:06] Tamir Shklaz: So the biggest piece of advicefor tech is build a portfolio of projects, look at problems around you and
create solutions for them and open source solutions, put it up on GitHub,
document your thinking on why you did this the way you did that. If if, a
graduate came up to me and said, look, I got a hundred percent on math or here
are three projects that I built all with my thinking laid out on why I bought
these projects and the step by step approach I took, that graduate is going to
get the interview nine times out of 10 over the candidate that got a hundred
percent in math.
[00:04:42] Tamir Shklaz: The next one is, a bit trite orin the sense of you, you've heard it before and it's wisdom that has been said
a million times, but love what you do. I think especially in a world where
everything is changing so much you need to and zooming back as well to what
we're talking about previously on [00:05:00]learning to learn being the most important thing in one of the prerequisites of
learning to learn is that there needs to be a motivation.
[00:05:06] Tamir Shklaz: Yes. If I, hate. Let's say anygiven subject, I don't know, for example, for me, drawing I am just not good at
drawing or anything artistic, but if I was studying drawing, and then I started
putting myself in the mindset, oh, damn, I need to adapt now, and a new form of
drawing is out, and I need to learn this form of drawing.
[00:05:26] Tamir Shklaz: I'm not going to want to do itbecause it doesn't, there's no joy in it. There's no inherent self driven
motivation. But for me, I love coding. I love tech. And there's a, even if, I
wasn't doing work in it, I would be learning about new languages or
technologies just because there is something innately curious about it.
[00:05:45] Tamir Shklaz: And so for, these graduates thatare then looking at this as the most important thing is to actually enjoy what
you're doing and be naturally curious about it, because if you're naturally
curious about it, if you naturally enjoy it, you're going to be in such a
better position to learn new [00:06:00] thingsas they change, adapt to challenges as they come up, and you'll be able to figure
out an avenue or path on how to make that successful on how you'd be able to
make a meaningful career from what you know.
[00:06:12] Tamir Shklaz: It's interesting. I
[00:06:13] Andrew Liew: think it's very useful becauselike my view is also along the line with what you're thinking because as like
for fresh graduates or people who are in mid career trying to differentiate
themselves with chat GPT, people can just write any resume that fits the job
[00:06:28] Andrew Liew: And so there will be 100 resumeand 100 people to interview. Who do you interview? Everybody seems to write the
same thing because now chat GPT can do it in a split second, right? And it's
only true talking to the person. That you discover, hey, what actually drives
you to, do this job or what actually drives you to join my company.
[00:06:46] Andrew Liew: And the moment they can say sayfor Stripe Map oh, actually I read about you guys. You guys really into
teaching kids on how to code. I've been learning to play with kids and learning
to see how kids learn. And that drives me to want to be [00:07:00] part of it. Then you are able to see.
[00:07:02] Andrew Liew: That is that long termdifferentiator because that is intrinsically stronger than chat GP write me a
resume, chat GP tell me how to talk to interviewer so I can get a job because
that doesn't sustain in the long run, right? What is your thought on
[00:07:16] Tamir Shklaz: that? Yeah I couldn't agreemore. A quote comes to mind here which, goes along the lines of, he who has a
why can bear any how and it's a classic thing on, focus on why, and if, your
why is strong enough, it doesn't matter the challenge that you'll be facing,
you're going to be able to, solve that challenge and overcome that.
[00:07:37] Tamir Shklaz: And that's just evidently truein the way that we've been looking at, People that we, want to work with or
people that we want to hire. So we want to hire passionate people who their why
is related to education. Their why is related to making education more joyful
and meaningful because one, just the energy in the company, the energy amongst
your colleagues, the energy amongst the people around you is just going to create this positive snowball effect where people
are going to want to come up to work, they're going to feel energized, but two,
we also know that they're going to be able to overcome challenges as.
[00:08:10] Tamir Shklaz: As they come up in the job, andso that's true of any workplace, whether that be in finance or law or medicine
if, you're able to really connect with a grander why of what you're doing,
you're going to be able to overcome challenges so much better and be able to
just communicate your ability to provide value to the place that you're looking
to get into the In a much more impactful way.
[00:08:35] Andrew Liew: Cool. And talking about that, butit takes a lot to find a purposeful like leader and business leader, even
parents who wants the best for the kids from a purpose driven perspective. So
what would be your tips and advice for business leaders or parents interested
to start digital education or digital transformation with kids and school so
that they are ready for the future.
[00:08:59] Tamir Shklaz: [00:09:00]Yeah parents number one, simple and self driven answer a little bit, or biased
answer, sign your kids up for coding I think it is an incredibly important,
skill. Check out strivemath. com, but of course there are hundreds of other
examples and places that might be a better fit for your kid.
[00:09:16] Tamir Shklaz: YouTube. Or other codingproviders, but I think giving your kids access to a technical education is
really important. I think the other piece of advice I would give parents here
is, and it relates back to the conversation we're having previously on how can.
Parents adapt to this, like given the education system is out of date, but we
have an existing system which benefits you getting top math marks.
[00:09:42] Tamir Shklaz: How do you navigate this?
[00:09:44] Tamir Shklaz: I think one of the most impactfulthings you can do for your kid, not only in the sense of giving them real world
applicable skills, but even getting them to do better at the existing academics
is to instill a love of learning in your kid. It's to instill a joyful [00:10:00] attitude towards learning. The Reasonbeing, is that you look at the way a lot of kids are taught or pushed to taught
is that it's very, pressure driven.
[00:10:10] Tamir Shklaz: It's. You've got to performbetter in tests, his entire self worth starts to become intertwined with their
academic performance. And I think this is a large extent why we have a lot of,
I'm not a math person because it's I didn't do well in this one test. My entire
self worth is based off of my academic marks here.
[00:10:30] Tamir Shklaz: That isn't an environment thatthe kid is going to fall in love with the process of learning. I'll give a
really real example. I used to be bad at math. Like when I was in grade five
and six, I was getting like 60% 50% 70% for math on different things there. If
luckily, I think my parents were quite lenient.
[00:10:50] Tamir Shklaz: They were quite, they weren'tvery dogmatic. You've got to get better marks. So it gave me breathing room.
What happened in grade eight is I came across an incredible teacher. I, had a [00:11:00] teacher that inspired me and was like, Oh,and he was able to just communicate math in a way that made sense to me. And
all of a sudden I started, I didn't, I am a math person.
[00:11:10] Tamir Shklaz: And then I started gettingeighties, nineties, went into engineering, et cetera, just because of this one
teacher. And because I didn't have math anxiety, had my parents put a lot of
pressure on me in grade five to be like, you've got to do better in math. And
pushed and pushed and pushed me down a wrong path.
[00:11:27] Tamir Shklaz: I don't think any teacher wouldhave been able to correct that. And I could have spent my entire life thinking
I'm not a math person. And I think that does, that is what happens. Kids
progress at different levels. Their brain changes at different angles. We can't
necessarily predict the things that are going to.
[00:11:42] Tamir Shklaz: Enable them to thrive, butcreating a very pressure full environment isn't one that is going to create an
environment where they will ever thrive, creating an environment where I think
is driven by like joy and self driven and self interest have to find the
balance. I know that this is hard, but my kid has to do well, but there needs to be some balance to what is currently given on the.
[00:12:03] Tamir Shklaz: A very test driven mindset, butfinding some balance on joy falling in love with learning, I think, will only
serve kids better of getting better academic performance today and not only set
them up for success later in giving them better and more applicable skills.
[00:12:18] Andrew Liew: There's a whole lot of thingsthat I really want to talk to you, but I guess we are coming, running out of
[00:12:23] Andrew Liew: So let's go down to the like lastquestion and then maybe if, the audience say we want more, I'll let's do
another one. Your last question is since you have given so much to the audience
to really understand how AI going to change the future of work, education,
advice to getting them to start using coding to learn the joy of love.
[00:12:41] Andrew Liew: To have the growth mindset. Whatwould be your ask for people listening to this podcast show? What is it that
you want? More customer, more talent, more ecosystem. Just tell, ask the
[00:12:52] Tamir Shklaz: universe. What is it? Yeahsimple one for parents is If you have a kid between the ages of 8 [00:13:00] and 16, check out StriveMath.
[00:13:00] Tamir Shklaz: com to try out a, class to seeif Strive is and coding is the right fit for your kid. Usually we charge for a
class, but what we'll do for just your viewers, Andrew, is that we'll give them
a free trial class. So if they just use the code, I'll send this to you as well
afterwards, they use the code like Andrew2023 on the checkout page.
[00:13:17] Tamir Shklaz: They'll get a free trial classand they won't need to pay for schools. If there's anyone from related to or
connections to schools would love to partner and do any kind of workshops or
presentations at your school. A lot of the similar stuff here that we've talked
about on instilling a love of learning.
[00:13:33] Tamir Shklaz: Coding education, technicaleducation, AI would love to, to work together on any of those. For any business
leaders that might be listening to this, we have an employee benefit program
where you could offer our coding classes to parents at your company. So please
reach out at my email tamir at strivemath.
[00:13:48] Tamir Shklaz: com and would love to, to talkto you about offering, offering our classes to, to your employees. Great.
[00:13:54] Andrew Liew: We have come to the end of thepodcast. Let me just click a stop on this recording and then one second. I think when I do that over here. Yeah. Okay. So it's