Podcast with Harry Hazhrul Part 3
Summary:
In the rapidly evolving world of e-commerce, the future holdsexciting possibilities and challenges. Harry Hazhrul, an experienced entrepreneur and tech expert, shares his insights in a fascinating podcast. He highlights the need for e-commerce companies to adapt to changing consumer
behaviors and regional demands, emphasizing the significance of building
resilient supply chains and embracing artificial intelligence for predictive
technologies. As the industry moves towards a greener future, ESG values will
become integral to business models. Moreover, Hazhrul predicts that
tech-savviness will be commonplace, with no-code tools empowering individuals
to become tech experts. The future of work in e-commerce will witness a blend
of sophisticated coders and automation, shaping a dynamic landscape that
prioritizes efficiency and customer experience.
In this podcast with Harry Hazhrul, the biggest challengesfacing e-commerce in Southeast Asia are discussed. One major issue is that the
supply chains in the region are closely tied to China, making them vulnerable
to disruptions during events like the COVID-19 pandemic. To overcome this,
there is a need to build capacities within Southeast Asia to produce goods
locally and diversify supply chains.
Another challenge is dealing with natural disasters, which arefrequent in the region. For e-commerce companies to enhance their delivery systems,
they should focus on predictive technologies, like AI, to anticipate natural
disasters and plan deliveries accordingly.
In terms of the future of e-commerce, it is unlikely to moveinto the Metaverse in the next decade. Instead, the trend may shift back to the
big screen, like TVs, where people can access e-commerce platforms. The future
will also see the integration of Internet of Things (IoT) technologies into
homes to improve the shopping experience. Additionally, the importance of
sustainability and environmental consciousness (ESG) in e-commerce is expected
to increase, especially as younger generations become more influential in the
market.
Looking at the future of tech professionals in the next decade,knowledge of coding will become more widespread, and no-code tools will empower
more individuals to build and design websites and applications. Highly skilled
coders will focus on automating lower-value tasks, while concentrating on
building robust and innovative products for businesses.
[00:00:00] Andrew Liew: so like you mentioned they willstart doing automation and adding robotics. And in the meantime, what do you
think is the biggest challenge facing e commerce in Southeast
[00:00:09] Harry Hazhrul: Asia? The biggest challenge Iwould say is, there are two things. One is that because it's very China
centric, right?
[00:00:17] Harry Hazhrul: Supply chains are still tiedtoo closely to China. So as we saw during COVID when there was a gridlock at
the ports in China nothing moves and that affected also Southeast Asia. Okay.
It's in, and it's also attribute in probably some other markets around the
world where. Supply chains are very focused in China, for example Apple, phase
and trying to diversify into India.
[00:00:38] Harry Hazhrul: So, Southeast Asia being a bigmarket as it is we, need to, look inwards into our supply chain and look how we
can build our own capacities to produce. So it doesn't necessarily have to be
shipped out from China, although China is controlling a lot of the companies in
Southeast Asia.
[00:00:55] Harry Hazhrul: But the these Chinese companiesactually. Also [00:01:00] started to invest incapacities within Southeast Asia themselves, right? Once they start to
diversify into Southeast Asia, make the productions more into Southeast Asia,
then yeah, The supply chain would be a little bit more robust, right?
[00:01:13] Harry Hazhrul: So when things like pandemicshappen again and so on it's not so bad, right? I think the other challenge
that's quite unique to Southeast Asia is because of our Position around the
ring of fire. So when natural disasters happens, right? Like earthquakes,
volcanoes like when I was in Lazada, I heard that nothing moved in the
Philippines for a while because of volcanic eruption.
[00:01:37] Harry Hazhrul: Oh natural disasters are alsoquite inevitable, but things still need to move. Other parts of the country,
they didn't probably get the natural disasters, so they're still ordering
things. But how do you then respond, right? In Indonesia, for example floods
happen quite a bit. Floods also happen in Malaysia also, right?
[00:01:55] Harry Hazhrul: And when an order is made youactually don't know where the flood is because [00:02:00]the Metro meteorological service doesn't actually give you the right or the
what do you call this realtime news at the right time, right? So when others
make the, GoGet will go there and then realize I cannot deliver because now
there's a flood
[00:02:15] Harry Hazhrul: Now there's a flood. I need towait for another two hours to deliver. It's gonna delay, blah, blah, blah. When
you do transport measurement systems, I think today you, need to understand
your environment. And your environment needs to be predicted, right? And today
it's not la. You when you deploy transport management system, you only cater
for the density of your geographic region.
[00:02:37] Harry Hazhrul: How many hours you can do a dayand things like your gridlocks, when jams might happen, but you don't normally
think about your natural disasters, right? When floods will happen, when
volcanic eruptions will happen and so on when this area will have a flood, so
you can,
[00:02:51] Harry Hazhrul: if you can. Give morevisibility to that and have more predictive technologies with AI and so on then
yeah, this [00:03:00] probably things that thatcan be overcome and hopefully things like AI can come into the picture by
tapping into sensors, you know you more better satellite visibility or Where
it's not easy to receive an order, right?
[00:03:14] Harry Hazhrul: So then okay. That there's aflood coming or when there is a flood, we can. Restrict the orders coming
through for that area, right? Okay you can order for now because we can't
deliver to you yet All right, so we wait until the flood recedes. Okay. Now
it's open up again, then you can order Others are wasting time
[00:03:32] Harry Hazhrul: So what you're saying thatright now based on your view is that the current so called the delivery of last
mile for e commerce companies, they haven't actually incorporate artificial
intelligence to forecast all this anticipated natural disaster, right? No, Oh
yeah. I do think so.
[00:03:50] Harry Hazhrul: That's definitely not happeningfor now. Yeah. If a natural disaster happens and things just stop for a while,
goods doesn't get moved out, right? Yeah, and so if [00:04:00]that's the case, then where is the areas of artificial intelligence that you
see that these tech companies are spending money on because AI is so broad in
that sense yeah I think they're still looking, towards more on the upstream
side.
[00:04:14] Harry Hazhrul: Predicting when an order iscoming in, right? Yeah. So if there are eyeballs on this particular page, then
they are preparing the head counts downstream. Okay, there's a lot more activity
on this particular PDP on this particular brand and so on. I, as I'm expecting
orders to come in two days from now.
[00:04:33] Harry Hazhrul: And then they start to arrangethe downstream ground operations to prepare for those search and orders, right?
That's probably happening today. But in terms of all these other external
factors, it's not quite there yet. And we can have more predictability. I think
that will be really interesting.
[00:04:48] Harry Hazhrul: Yes. Yes. Yeah. So let's askabout the next interesting question. Why do you move away from Southeast Asia?
Why go to Reha? Riyad, right? ? Yeah, . Yeah like, I said it's a new space is
it's for me[00:05:00] as, somebody who has beendoing entrepreneurship for both of my life, it's an open opportunity to start
something from scratch with the comfort of a very well based area.
[00:05:11] Harry Hazhrul: Money is. It's so much better,right? I'm just curious. Is it they treat you like cristiano ronaldo? They give
you cars. They give you money, Not like cristiano ronaldo Okay, for an expert
package typically they need to arrange for your housing and your transportation
but he's modest.
[00:05:30] Harry Hazhrul: It's nothing like ronaldo thereis a budget for you to rent your own car probably a simple, Corolla and, I
think bulk of it goes to housing, right? So we live in some sort of condo. The
condo is not bad actually, but I think for the money that we are spending is
definitely a value for money for what we can get in Singapore, right?
[00:05:50] Harry Hazhrul: And of course Saudi is one ofthe few tax havens in the world. There's no tax. You don't know. Yeah. There,
there is this thing called Zakat. Zakat is more of an Islamic [00:06:00] tax. You can call it that. But it's. InSaudi, it's actually voluntary, although it's actually a mandatory by Islamic
law, but as a country legal system, they've actually made it voluntary for
individuals.
[00:06:14] Harry Hazhrul: But despite it being voluntary,people actually still come forth to pay their so called and, yeah and, the
reason for that is simply because that they. It's an Islamic commandment
although the, king has made it voluntary, I don't need text from you.
[00:06:30] Harry Hazhrul: I'm, rich enough. I'm justgoing to take the companies, right? So they're, texting companies, 20%. Yeah,
because I was wanting to ask you how, can such a country sustain itself apart
from petrol? We all know that they say that by 2030, they are, they knew that
people are going on to this electric or renewable energy.
[00:06:48] Harry Hazhrul: Yeah. So actually they havebeen they have always been taxing companies. They have been taxing capital
gain. So if you invested something in Saudi, you want to take it out, you're
going to get taxed [00:07:00] 20, 25%. Oh,great. Yeah but for individuals, no, you're not taxed in that sense. By Islamic
law, you're supposed to pay zakat.
[00:07:09] Harry Hazhrul: We do that in Singapore toowhere it is actually offset from your income tax. So let's say you need to pay
income tax 2, 000, you pay zakat 500, your income tax then become 1, 500. What
about in Singapore? Do they have something like the C p F and, no Saudi? Like
how do they make sure your healthcare and all the others are covered here?
[00:07:30] Harry Hazhrul: For experts, man it's actuallymandatory to get private healthcare insured. Oh, and that is born by the
company themselves. The company actually puts a lot on the bill. So the state
doesn't do it. It is actually then Redirected to the companies and it becomes
part of their expense.
[00:07:48] Harry Hazhrul: So healthcare insurance is Ifyou're not wrong, it is 100 percent 100 percent. So you don't pay a single cent
as long as you have healthcare, right? So healthcare is actually the job of the
companies[00:08:00] So in order for you to havefree healthcare, you need to be employed, you need to be pre employed. And it
is what you call it is complete, it's a complete healthcare package for is
[00:08:08] Harry Hazhrul: there no payment? Is thereriders that you need to pay for it? No, It comes right from the employee.
Everything is borne by the employer. Ah it is actually great to be an expat in
the Middle East particularly in Saudi. So not all Middle East countries are the
same, right? So for example, in Dubai Dubai doesn't have complete package
healthcare.
[00:08:27] Harry Hazhrul: It's only for you. If you wantto cover for your family, you need to pay extra, but Saudi made it mandatory.
You will cover for the whole family, but it's mandatory for expats to come in.
And what else can I say? That thing, it's exciting. Saudi started to liberalize
10 years ago.
[00:08:41] Harry Hazhrul: It was unimaginable Saudi. Why,go there Is the desert, right? . Unless you like the pen everyday line. Yeah.
But it's actually the fastest growing startup interest of startups. It's
fastest, it's the fastest growing city in terms of startups in the Middle East,
even faster than Israel today. Yeah.
[00:08:59] Harry Hazhrul: [00:09:00]So, they actually have surpassed Israel now. So the number of starters that are
growing, the rate of growth I'm not talking about the number of status, but the
rate of growth is really shooting up and hopefully there'll be more, right? So
it's, exciting. There are a lot of things happening in.
[00:09:13] Harry Hazhrul: In Saudi it's a greenfield ecommerce is barely existent. So we're building something new but it's, you
can't just transplant our experience into Saudi. It's a different market. It's
a different market. We have different behaviors, a different culture. So what
you think in service, it cannot exactly be the same thing in, Saudi or the
Middle East.
[00:09:34] Harry Hazhrul: Those are the learning points.If you think that deliveries can happen fast, it really doesn't happen fast in
Saudi. Because it's an automobile country public transport networks are non
existent. We've only just launched the rail system, right? So when you drive
out, gridlocks happen all the time, right?
[00:09:51] Harry Hazhrul: So, how do you get yourdeliveries fast is a challenge we need to figure out. That's a new problem for
me, because it really doesn't happen in Singapore or most [00:10:00] parts of Southeast Asia, except for maybeMetro Jakarta or Metro Manila, right? Gridlocks happen all the time, right?
It's unique you gotta figure out, okay, how do I make sure that I can promise
next day delivery or same day delivery, knowing that gridlocks will happen from
this time to that time?
[00:10:15] Harry Hazhrul: What about using dronesinteresting that would be very interesting news of technology. At the moment we
don't have plans for drones yet. But, yeah Saudi is actually quite a good
market to try drones because they're not really a high rise city that there are
some sky.
[00:10:33] Harry Hazhrul: There are some apartments hereand there but most of Riyadh are low rise buildings, right? And there's still
enough space for you to land. But not enough, I would say, open areas for that
road to land into. Because even though they're low res, they're still quite
packed. They're still quite packed so there's a bit of density across, in
between routes.
[00:10:52] Harry Hazhrul: Okay, what about in that case,now when you're going there, and you also have an idea of what's happening in
Southeast Asia, what is [00:11:00] your view onthe future of e commerce in the next 5 to 10 years? In the next 5 to 10 years
it definitely won't be in the Metaverse, that's for sure. Why?
[00:11:07] Harry Hazhrul: I'm just curious, what's thereasoning behind that? For me, I'm skeptical maybe futurists will say yes, it's
going to happen in the Metaverse. But I'm skeptical for example, where's my
flying car? It still doesn't happen. Do you think it's because the gadgets to
plug into the Metaverse is just too clunky, too dizzy, nausea kind of stuff?
[00:11:25] Harry Hazhrul: It's... It's not about that. Ithink it's about practicality. Why would I want to wear these gadgets are just
for me to do my shopping, right? Why would I want to do that? I still don't
know what problem I'm solving, so as a product manager, that's the thing that I
think about. What problem am I solving?
[00:11:40] Harry Hazhrul: Why do I need... To use themetaverse to do my job when there's something similar, right? Yeah. So I don't
think it will be in the metaverse. We, have predicted this quite, quite a bit.
Oh, virtual reality. You can, we can do shopping in, in a virtual shopping
mall, right? Yes. [00:12:00] Yes. That, thathas been predicted before.
[00:12:01] Harry Hazhrul: But I do think that swear. Ecommerce is going to be, I think the trend is, okay. The trend has been that e
commerce has moved from the desktop to mobile within a decade, right? Because
of the advancements in technology that has happened. But I believe he's going
to move back to the big screen.
[00:12:17] Harry Hazhrul: Okay. So going back to the bigscreen, where are we spending most of our time now? We're watching Netflix. Ah,
we're watching Netflix. We come back home and going to open up our, TV. What
are we watching? We're watching Netflix. We're watching Disney. Maybe some
people watching view.
[00:12:33] Harry Hazhrul: So how is shopping going tohappen tomorrow? In the past 10 years we've got we, we had free to air. We had
maybe some elements of cable, and there were advertising here and there. We
were always interrupted with advertising. Okay, and with the way things are
moving and netflix may say no advertising But I don't think they can sustain
that model.
[00:12:56] Harry Hazhrul: Spotify obviously hasadvertising, right? so [00:13:00] how are yougoing to Leap from seeing the ad to making a budget and I think it's going to
be on a big screen still, you know So we're going to move from mobile to the
big screen or it could be a dual screen kind of thing like Here's the QR code
scanning pop up, do something, or it could be more IOT, right?
[00:13:17] Harry Hazhrul: There are already bridges thatcan sense what's inside your fridge and tell you what you need to buy. It's you
just remind me of this, like Amazon in the U S like a washing machine. You just
put a plug. If you just run out of washing power, just press the same button.
Yeah. So it's going to get more digital, right?
[00:13:34] Harry Hazhrul: Yeah. Yeah. So more tactile.It's going to be embedded into your devices like, I always say that your
washing machine is running out of detergent. Press a button and all this is
going to come next day, right? I, think that's where we're going to be in the
next 10 years. I don't think it's going to be as audacious as Metaverse.
[00:13:51] Harry Hazhrul: I don't think that's going tohappen. It's just too big, a leap. Maybe, a flying car in the next 10 years,
who knows? Laughter. But e commerce, the initial e commerce, no, I think[00:14:00] it's still going, it's going to go back tothe big screen. So from, mobile to the big screen, because you are going to be
hooked onto your TV again and see Netflix and see Spotify, listen to stuff on,
Spotify, hearing the ads and make an action, right?
[00:14:15] Harry Hazhrul: How are you going to make anaction, right? And then things are going to be embedded into your fridge,
your... Your that's probably going to be IOTs in your kitchen counters, right?
You put your dry goods, where you put it, right? And if things are receding,
what's going to happen? IOT cheaper, right? It's not impossible for us to come
up with software.
[00:14:36] Harry Hazhrul: I do think, and it's alreadyhappening Amazon. What if they start to democratize and offer a kitchen
solution that can tell you, Hey your this what we call this this bread is
receiving in, in, quantity. Do you want to make a purchase for new bread? That's
going to happen.
[00:14:53] Harry Hazhrul: I feel in the next 10 years andAmazon, being Amazon, I'm sure the there's probably secret depth [00:15:00] somewhere in Seattle where they startedworking on this, to build IOTs for homes. And that's where. That's where I
think the next battle in e commerce is going to be if, e commerce companies
stay stuck doing service and just logistics, that's not going to fly.
[00:15:15] Harry Hazhrul: I think we got to look intohardware, right? IOT is control the home. Once you are in the home, you control
your orders. What about the recent case about this Amazon style store in the U.
S. where it's almost like a Macy, a Walmart but in Singapore, it's like an NTUC
or Capital Land where you go and shopping and then you use, a QR code to scan
and then you will deliver all the items to a fitting room and then just the one
that you want, but it will also send you some of the recommended items for you
to try.
[00:15:47] Harry Hazhrul: Is it something like that? Whatdo you call that? I don't know. I think it's called Amazon wardrobe. Amazon
wardrobe, right? Yeah, but I think it's implemented differently in different
countries, like in the UK and, this is something that we were actually talking
about [00:16:00] me because most, of the peoplecome from Lamoda in Russia. So they're all high fashion and you try to
revolutionize fashion and in Saudi as well, so trying to figure out what's,
interesting, right? So Amazon wardrobe, you make an order, right? You, put,
let's say 10 items to cut. And under the Amazon wardrobe plan, most of the
items come in, you try it on, you return what you don't want.
[00:16:23] Harry Hazhrul: Yeah. I think probably it'squite different in the US. I'm not so familiar with, but I'm quite familiar
with the UK version of it. That's probably going to be quite an interesting
thing that might happen. But and amazon is obviously the pioneer for it. So
yeah we I think that's That is basically how e commerce already works today
anyway, right?
[00:16:46] Harry Hazhrul: But it's a lot more In terms ofpolicymaking, right? So if you buy something online today from Lazada, right?
And, this is a common problem I face with Lazada. I buy something, it really
doesn't fit me. Although it says XL. [00:17:00]Because this is not XL, man. But what if I could... Yeah so, I actually have to
order a few sizes and then I just return the rest and I need to order a certain
brand from Lazada called LASMO that allows you to change your mind because
other types of Lazada shops doesn't allow change of mind as a return reason.
[00:17:19] Harry Hazhrul: That, that, is one way to lookat it. It's already there in a sense, but it's not really marketed as a
wardrobe. Because last month covers everything from fashion all the way down to
household appliances, et cetera, et cetera, but Amazon is the first one that.
[00:17:34] Harry Hazhrul: Just tweak the policy and makeit just strictly fashion and markets it like it's the next big thing. It's, not
really too different what you have today. It's just the marketing buzzwords
that they use and the policymaking that they did. But yeah, it's it's going to
be a buzz in terms of generating more sales.
[00:17:52] Harry Hazhrul: What about like you say if, Igo to Lazada and for one size of shirt, it gives me a few size to fit and I
return the rest. It's almost like [00:18:00]the Zappos model. Why isn't it would, this be a common thing? Like a Zappos
type, like one size, they give you three items and then you reverse logistic
back.
[00:18:08] Harry Hazhrul: It should be, but it's nothappening. I think because of the cost of return, like I said, everything is
tightly packed to China, right? And the cost of return from Singapore to China
is going to be expensive. So if you can distribute your supply chain then it's
going to be a lot more cost effective.
[00:18:24] Harry Hazhrul: Zappos model works in the USbecause it's still one, one continental state, right? You're not shipping it
cross border. It's still same, country. But it doesn't quite work in a
Southeast Asian model because we are still too tightly. Tied into China, if we
can distribute that supply chain across the region, yes.
[00:18:42] Harry Hazhrul: Maybe the cost of returns is alot cheaper. And that might work. What about this these days everybody, the new
password is called the green thing. E s g. What about green commerce? Helping
customer finding items that is green? It's a buzz word. I think it's a buzz
word for millennials.
[00:18:59] Harry Hazhrul: As [00:19:00]we grow up and, get more mature as a society and realize about climate change
we, start to look for more green alternatives and, I see it in my family also.
We buy more reusable. Household utensils, for example, or things that can
decompose into the ground rather than by what single use plastics, right?
[00:19:21] Harry Hazhrul: It is happening. ButSingaporeans in particular, are not really a green friendly society. We really
don't care too much about recycling efforts, right? Plastics to we need the
plastic for example, right? And when NTC change policy, we'll need to pay 10
cent. People don't rumble because they want it and they need it I think younger
generation, yes they care a lot more for the environment. And over time, it's a
cultural shift sooner or later, ESG should be part and parcel of the DNA of
anything. It shouldn't just be a buzzword anymore, right? We is this the only
world that we have and [00:20:00] with the waythings are in terms of e commerce today And the buses today is fast commerce,
right things that are moving fast with companies like sheen Right that's
generating a lot of waste actually, right?
[00:20:12] Harry Hazhrul: So how can we make that a lotmore? Friendlier for the environment I think that should be embedded into every
company right now. Yeah, so you don't think that like in the next 10 years like
Some of the e commerce company will say hey, let's not just issue a receipt for
the monetary transaction But also a carbon footprint for the items that they
buy including the logistics I don't know.
[00:20:34] Harry Hazhrul: I don't know if there issomething that people care too much about in Southeast Asia And looking at
Southeast Asian societies and looking at how they treat the environment
themselves and you go to Indonesia, for example they've only just started to
clean the rivers, for example, right?
[00:20:52] Harry Hazhrul: Yeah. In Malaysia we visitMalaysia for a bit not, and I'm not saying the whole nation is like, there's a
thing, certain parts of, Malaysia, [00:21:00]for example, the city might be like that. If you go to Melaka, it's quite
different. Melaka is quite a clean. Clean city, a clean state because they
they're foreign.
[00:21:07] Harry Hazhrul: A Singapore model due to thereasons being that a lot of mulans actually work in Singapore or have relatives
in Singapore and they they are in a certain sense they didn't like Singapore.
So they do find, people who lit in , which is quite interesting. And you go to.
For the most of it, I wouldn't say it's 100% as clean as Singapore and some
parts are still quite dirty, but for most of it, because it depends a lot on
tourism, it is quite clean.
[00:21:31] Harry Hazhrul: In, in other parts of thestate, in other parts of Malaysia, Perlis, for example, the northernmost state
is very clean, but lower down the border, Kedah is quite dirty. So it really
depends on the culture of the country. And for the most part, I think Southeast
Asians are not there yet, but the younger generation can.
[00:21:50] Harry Hazhrul: Right and as they start tobecome the crux of the economy, they will start to bring their values into the
country and start to [00:22:00] say no esg hasto be part and parcel of your dna already. It cannot be just a gimmick. It
cannot be just you know, a bus but it needs to be front and center embedded.
[00:22:08] Harry Hazhrul: It's not just Differentiatethat you should be common already. By the time we the millennials are the mainstays
of the economy. I see. So let's talk about the future, the millenniums. They
are always keen to learn from you, from people like you. So what is your view
on the future of work with tech people in 10 years time?
[00:22:26] Harry Hazhrul: Okay. Everybody will be typepeople. I think I think tech knowing tech knowing some code, it doesn't have to
be a lot. Knowing some code will be as ubiquitous as MS Word. Everybody's know
MS Word, right? Okay. Data is the new oil, right? So you need to. Probably everybody
has to have some SQL.
[00:22:45] Harry Hazhrul: So I think the people at riskof their jobs are actually today, the people who are becoming programmers
because yeah look at it this way tools are getting more easier to use. There's
a lot more. No 10 years ago, probably you need to hire somebody to build a
website [00:23:00] today.
[00:23:00] Harry Hazhrul: What, web designer, what webdeveloper I can go. To any no code platform today and build a simple website
myself I can go to shopify and build an e commerce store for myself, right? I
don't need a developer Okay, and shopping. Yes. I think there's some learning
curve to shopify But for the most of it people are able to turn to shopify I
think you can turn around things within two days if you understand Because I
think, I do agree there's still some learning curve to it, but there are also
alternatives out there that are a lot more simpler, like Squarespace for
example. It's quite easy, right? Compared to 5 years ago, how long it takes for
even to hire a software developer to build such an e commerce site?
[00:23:38] Harry Hazhrul: So that the audience can seethe difference, 5 years ago, I think it would take about The fastest I've seen
is 2 weeks. Wow, 2 weeks in 2 days. Wow, that's a big difference in 5 days. On
average, normally we turn around our website within 30 to 40 days. But if you
have a proper, pipeline and as if you want to do, I think two weeks is quite
achievable.
[00:23:58] Harry Hazhrul: Of course depends on theclient. And [00:24:00] so clients, the fasterthe client, the longer it will take. The and one, the philosophy that I use and
I try to tell my client is, you're not building a website. You're trying to
build business. Yes. Don't, care too much about the, this pixel there.
[00:24:12] Harry Hazhrul: That pixel here as theconsumer, they really don't care. They just need to make the purchasing
experience simple. And South Asian buyers in particular the They care a lot
about the price and the ease of purchase. That's all right everything around it
Don't care yet Just make sure you can make a sale first and then slowly go
towards your vision of must do this beautiful You know that then you will move
right?
[00:24:37] Harry Hazhrul: Unfortunately a lot of peoplewho started e commerce the, focus too much on the aesthetic, not the
experience. So, with these no code tools. They can already do that. The
designer or the developer won't tell you all these philosophies, right? No,
focus on it. No code tools will help you also build the experience as well as
beautify however you want, right?
[00:24:57] Harry Hazhrul: And you're in control. So youthink that in the next [00:25:00] 10 years,like there will be more no coders? Everybody's tech people that there'll be
some coders, but more sophisticated. Yes, more sophisticated work. Coders will,
start to automate a lot of things. They do, you're already doing that today,
right?
[00:25:14] Harry Hazhrul: The, lower value of what weautomate them. Coders, the high value coders will, focus more. On building,
building robust product, right? Nobody's going to hire a design house 10 years
from now. Wow. I don't think that will happen.